I actually find it kind of fun sometimes to go into a company, dressed to the nines and fix what ever networking issue or server issue they have. Usually it’s just fun to see the mouth drop open and the stunned looks as the problem is fixed in record time.

But most places I have worked it takes the men a bit of time to settle down to the fact that I won’t break, cry or have a fit if something goes wrong. I think the most difficult job I had was being a network engineer for a consulting company - I worked with a bunch of guys - I think out of 20 people in the office there were 5 women, all but me were in the “front” office (admin, accounting, reception). Most of the men really didn’t know what to do when I was around and treated me like I would cry if they said anything wrong - didn’t last to long though thankfully - they were a great group to work with and I learned a lot being around them.

People will always judge you on first impressions - so go out there and show them what you are.

Lirria

That is so true.  I have never been a girlie dresser, always the tom-boy.  But I’ve found that most guys I work with handle me with kid gloves in the beginning.  Once we get to know each other they find out I’m just one of the guys.  The only frustration I have is that if there is a heavy server racked above my head that I have to pull, I have to ask for help as I’m not a very big person.  The guys are great helping me and it doesn’t seem to take away from my over-all abilities.  I’ve always been one of the guys and love working with men, but from time to time I’d come in dressed nice (nice jeans and a sweater, make-up, etc) and they’d always ask me if I had a date or was going on a job interview.  It’s overall a fun environment to work in.

Carrie,
First off, I want to give you credit for where you’re working and where you’ve worked in the past.  I almost did the Pentagon/Govt. kind of stuff, but decided not to because the treatment I got from the “higher-ups” was, to be honest, kind of scary.  Maybe after you’re done with this company, think about starting your own gig, like a Consultant thing.  I had a really hard time in the work place too because of the way I look, but also because of my personality, and it sounds like you are getting the same thing.  Strangely enough, nobody took me seriously (or I felt like they didn’t) until I said “screw it” and went out on my own.  Now when I buy a new pair of super cute shoes, the clients (after they get over their first take on me) take me MORE seriously.  I’ve come to think of my work in the Corporate world as great experience for my work for my own business, and it made it worth it.  Good luck, and don’t give up!

Between internships, and just four years of full-time experience in the manufacturing industry, I have had trouble figuring out if the kid glove treatment is due to my youth and inexperience, or being female. As the years go by, I’m starting to lean towards the latter. The people I work with directly on a day to day basis are definitely much more accepting of the nerd girl persona (I’ve always referred to myself as a ‘nerd’!). I’ve noticed a difference between generations within the workforce, as well as the different segments. There is a strong ‘good ol’ boy’ feeling in upper management, where the average age is somewhere between mid-fifties, and mid-sixties, and 98% male. Also, I’ve noticed quite a difference between working with corporate technical staff, and working with the softer side of business, like sales and marketing (we won’t get into the manufacturing guys). I rarely notice a different treatment with the techies, whereas the softer side seems to have a need to exhibit...I don’t know...chivalry? I also see a good deal of animosity between women who have technical expertise, and those that work in sales service or administration, and it’s typically one-sided.

On the other hand, I teach undergrad statistics at a local university, and there is very little, if any, difference between male and female staff. I do feel as though I am a number there. But again, I’m only part-time!

This question of balance is difficult. I have personally had a hard time finding the balance, and it has been the one thing that has somewhat followed me throughout my professional career.  My work is great, I am considered an excellent resource. . .but I am too “personal.”

Has anyone noted a difference in the definition for “professional behavior” with men versus woman.  In many companies I will find the men have “friendships” with others in the business. I head them talk about their familes, their dogs, and many other topics outside of the work during breaks and lunch.  However, if I do the same, then I am considered “unprofessional” and “too personal.”

I have finally (after counseling) decided that I do not want to be the form of “professional” that the society wants me to be. If I intimidate by being intelligent, then don’t put me in front of people.  I have moved the balance by taking on more projects that are back office (analyzing data and building integrations).  It was a big step for me to finally say, “I don’t want to be a robot consultant with no personality. I am better being myself then punishing myself for being who I am!”

Note, being more back office analytical is not against my nature - I love database analysis and design.  To other’s it is tedious, to me it is candy...yum yum yum!

So - anyone else have a hard time balancing what the world considers professional for men versus woman? And if so, how have you dealt with it?

I’ve found the question of balance to be down right confusing!  I thought about it for a really long time.  In larger companies, the definition of “personal” was something like , “we have a boy’s club and girls aren’t boys, so you’re not invited.” In smaller companies, it was something like, “you’re a girl so you must know how to fix all my marital/family/personal issues.” I have come to the conclusion that not many people have actually thought about the definition of “professionalism” either or what it is supposed to do.  I don’t think professionalism is for the person exhibiting it, it’s for the people around them, it’s so that they don’t trigger anything in the people around them.  We all have difficulties/issues and professionalism is supposed to level the playing field so to speak.  However, it doesn’t really do that.  So I think the definition of personal should be anything that is not professional or anything that would trigger any difficulties in another person that would make it harder for them to do their work.  That’s the whole point, right...to get the work done?!?

I also really relate to how you made the plunge to work with yourself instead of against.  For a long time, I tried to fit myself into this professional archetype that I saw in the media about “professional women.” I saw them using their beauty or sensuality to get what they wanted professionally.  I tried to copy that for so long and just kept putting myself in situations that I hated so I could finally be the way they were or fit into that box.  One day, I just gave up on it.  I realized that I could work with myself or against myself and what I really wanted was very different than what I was doing.  I decided to see what I could do and stepped out on my own, sort of made a way for myself to create my own ideal working conditions.  It was scary taking that plunge to trust myself, but I am making it and am becoming more successful than ever I would have in some big company like those I used to try to change for before.  But as women, we HAVE to make our own paths, there aren’t enough paths already made for us, so we get to make them for ourselves.

don’t get me started on work-life balance.  i work for a huge company, with mostly guys, and they’re all the time taking off from work because there’s a sick kid or they want to visit family.  but when they do it it’s just life.  when I do it, it starts this huge, “oh, what’s her role in her family?” discourse.  and when five women do it, we end up on the cover of newsweek as “struggling”.  egads.

I think my biggest challenge in the workplace is just making sure i’m taken seriously as a technical person.  i’ve had guys say straight to me, “you’ll do well here because you’re a woman and corporate’s got this diversity kick going on.” well crap, that just means that if I get promoted, everyone will look at me and think that i didn’t really deserve the job, I just got it for being female.  it freaks me out.  lots of kids graduate college and get MBAs but I was afraid to, because I didn’t want anyone to think I was “businessy”.  just geek, pure and simple.

I’ve worked for two companies thus far. It wasn’t until my current experience that I realized exactly how poorly treated I’d been at the first company. The first company really wasn’t friendly or inclusive, and the second has accept me as-is.

The first company I was never considered inferior or unable to do the work, but they were hyper-sensitive to the fact I’m a woman. It always seemed when I conversed with another employee that he’d manage to remind me that he had a wife or girlfriend. Eyebrows would usually raise if I wore a skirt - a knee-length, pencil skirt - to work. The co-workers would josh among themselves, but I was never included in as part of that. (I’ve always wondered if they had a “how to avoid sexual harassment complaints” memo right before I started working there.) (Disclaimer. I was the only woman in the programming department. There were a few other in other areas of the company, so it wasn’t totally foreign for a woman to be working there.)

My second company has been much warmer and welcoming. Yes, I still dress professional, but it is not remarked upon when I wear business-casual, feminine clothing. Socially, I’m on equal ground, and I’m expected to be _me_ rather than the stereotype or the office norm. Any other differences in standing or expectations are because of differences (usually shortages) in past work experience, my different educational background, or my job responsibilities.

PS. Pixel Geek. One of the things that sets me apart at my current company is that I love the databases and other “tedious” tasks. For the first few weeks everyone was always asking if I was bored yet. For them? They hate the work I do. For me? I love spending all day working on it! It’s neat to come across another woman with similar interests :)

Thanks! I feel so much better after what you ladies have said. I thought it was just me!!

Until I knew about this website, I though it was just me too!  I have so much more confidence after reading what everyone has said on this site, I don’t feel so alone.  Thank you Nerd Girls!!!

I worked at a NASA center for a summer and was often mistaken for a secretary.  I wasn’t really offended though, since most of the females around were in administrative or secretarial positions—so it was a good guess, albeit a wrong one.
The research group I work in now is great though....I’m not even sure most of them realize I’m a girl!

Nothing special. Were all professional when it comes to our workplace..

Regards,
Pret travaux

It’s fair treatment to all. We’re all human beings anyway, regardless of our looks.

Regards,

Derek Smeath

Asian makeup

I am working at a three star hotel and the way they treat is just like any normal person does. But I think it depends on the person.

Regards,

Farah Lewis

Asian makeup

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